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New mode of starting

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east amloo's picture
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Hi,

We want to collect opinions about an improvement about starting. Like each know, we must start at the same place and we have a transition when "you're on a stack".

The new idea is to have more than one start. We can imagine that each people choose the start that they want, number 1 or number 2, for example. For each turn people choose the new position that they want to join. Is that a good idea ? What do you think about it ?

Thanks for answers.
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east amloo's picture
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If it's too difficult to change for chris or maybe not a so good idea, i have think about an other things :

Permit to the player to choose his first direction (left, right, up or down). This way will resolve some problems too.
dharokan's picture
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Actually I wanted to wait for some more reactions by others. But since they don't come, here is my opinion:

I don't like both ideas.
Imho they would make RS only more complicated to play but would not enhance the fun.
RS is reduced to the max.. and in my eyes this is one of the best things, chris bill and tchich have done with this game concept. 
We should not add more complexity to those brilliant game mechanism, just in order to have "something new". There are many other things that could be improved or added without changing the main principles.

Just my 5 cents ;)
east amloo's picture
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You say that because you are an older player like all of us. But this idea come back because a newbie told me it something like "it's stupid, why robots don't start to different place". And if we think about it, the "superposition" (on a stack) is not very understandable for people. They just escape quickly from the start if they don't want to be pushed. And only 2% of players know how to use the "superposition" for killing other (in a lot of years).

Maybe it's not the best improvement game... but it can be more fun for people to choose a side of starting. That can open the game for teams play too.

I think about some difficulty about this, if we have two side of the map with a big holes between us, the two side could shoot on the other but they can't pass... That's a problem, but people can change the choice of starting and go to the other side... That"s not great in any case...

BUT, i think about an other good idea in the last forum : a place to teleport to an other. This can add fun in the game... But you're right, change the playing of the game.
dharokan's picture
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east amloo wrote:
You say that because you are an older player like all of us. But this idea come back because a newbie told me it something like "it's stupid, why robots don't start to different place". And if we think about it, the "superposition" (on a stack) is not very understandable for people..

Wrong! I said that because game theory is my passion for about 20 years now.
I agree that the stacks are not very easy to understand. But do you really want to throw away ALL current maps? In order to get rid of the stack system, you will need at least one starting point for each player in every map. And if you don't want to get rid of it, your argument was pointless ;)

Honestly: Of course it sounds tasty to chose a point to start. Or the direction. I could imagine real cool boards with such an option. But all such would make RS more strategic and less casual. There are so many things you could add to the game. But that's a large risk! The real art in game making is not in adding stuff. The real art is keeping it all as simple as possible.

Teleporters would not destroy the game mechanism though. Imho even a nice idea (and maybe not too hard to implement). But we should discuss it in an own thread.

Cheers,
Dharo
east amloo's picture
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Mouarf !

Ok stay simple, but we will not have anymore new items on Robostrike so ? After 9 years, maybe we can change some things in the gameplay ? (not now, but in the future)
east amloo's picture
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The real art in game making is not in adding stuff. The real art is keeping it all as simple as possible


Robostrike is not simple at all xD (see a newbie, it's difficult to learn all things).
dharokan's picture
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Actually, for such a complex gameplay, RS is quite simple.

The inspiration "Robo Rallye" is far more cemplex. But it's a board game and not played as quickly as a web game, of course. A web game needs to be casual in some way. Not too complicated.

Imho RS keeps a perfect ballance of strategy game vs casual game.

And many new players understand it quite quickly. Not all, but I bet it's the majority. 

And btw: I haven't disagreed in new items. I even said that I liked the teleporter idea. But in the end, that's all Chris' and Bills decision...
east amloo's picture
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ok, ok. Wait and see.
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this topic started form a discussion we had with east amloo about new players understanding of RS rules.
We have to admit that the semi transparent stack behaviour is quite difficult to understand (even for some old players).

It's not easy to change this point without changing the global gameplay, because of existing maps and the need of keeping it fair and simple.

I thought there could be 2 ideas to dig:
- display from 2 up to 8 bots 1 cell around the first mark. But not all the current maps would enable it (even if we can force empty cells around).
- start from one point as currently but only for the first turn let each bot execute its 6 moves, then the other bot and so on. The problem would be to chose the order of the bots to move, beacuse it can sometimes give advantage. But over 3 players, the first turn is already a lucky mess, so why not ?

Let's continue the discussion here to validate or find new ideas to make RS easier to uderstand while keeping the core of its orginal gameplay.