• English
  • Deutsch
  • Français
  • Español

Team Games under development

110 replies [Last post]
Pjotr's picture
Last seen: 26 weeks 1 day ago
Modo
Posts: 78
Points: 83
Yes we would, Chris. It's not a different topic, it still belongs to Team Games Development and therefore belongs in this thread. But it's about something else than we've discussed lately, and to me, not as important.


I might have changed my views a little bit along the way, but still my main target is to minimize anger and bad feelings between team-mates due to mistakes causing team mate damages.

One could argue that your suggestion about caused injuries only hurt oneself and not the "assaulted" team mate, but team mates can still get angry with you anyway, for hurting the team  - by hurting yourself. But at least it does´t hurt them, so I think it at least reduces the risk for anger and bad feelings.

Considering so many others seems to dislike switching off team mate damages completely, I guess we start to get really close to what people from both sides can agree upon.

My only comment would be that I think the others still also wanted the effects from bombs to damage, the team mate or the one who placed the bomb. Have I understood that right, Dharo and others...?

I hope we get to a conclusion on this soon.

/Pjotr
enigma's picture
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Titanium bot
Posts: 340
Points: 344
what i meant about that is wht about people who will purposly kill there teamates regardess of exp loss to intentionly anger them....
Pjotr's picture
Last seen: 26 weeks 1 day ago
Modo
Posts: 78
Points: 83
Ok Enigma, I understand what you mean now. But I honestly think that in reality is more or less a non-existing problem. Also, we can't protect us from every single and smallest possibility of violation of the games' intentions, imho.

/Pjotr
dharokan's picture
Last seen: 18 hours 26 min ago
Modo
Posts: 779
Points: 783
Pjotr wrote:
One could argue that your suggestion about caused injuries only hurt oneself and not the "assaulted" team mate, but team mates can still get angry with you anyway, for hurting the team  - by hurting yourself. But at least it does´t hurt them, so I think it at least reduces the risk for anger and bad feelings.
Oh, I totally misunderstood Chris' suggestion before. Thanx for clarifying, Pjotr.

In fact, that's a nice idea. I am not sure wether it would be easy to understand though since it's a bit away from being realistic. Anyway, at first glance, this sounded like the best approach to me.

On the other hand, not every damage is inflicted intentionally. A player might play well, watching all his teammates moves and shooting in a different direction. But then, one of his teamates moves into his line of fire (by mistake or by being pushed)... and bam! The shooter dies. I wonder if that could not cause even more anger than the other way around.

Oh and thinking about bombs: One misplaced bomb might kill you immediately since the sum of all the damage inflicted with it.

Pjotr wrote:
My only comment would be that I think the others still also wanted the effects from bombs to damage, the team mate or the one who placed the bomb. Have I understood that right, Dharo and others...?
I could agree on switching off the bomb damage. I would just vote for keeping the stunning (freezing) effect. So a player hit by a bomb would not be damaged but will still turned off one turn for reparation.

enigma wrote:
what i meant about that is wht about people who will purposly kill there teamates regardess of exp loss to intentionly anger them....

I totally understand enigmas objection.
There are always some trolls around who just want to anger people and destroy their fun of playing. So they could use team games and play like a traitor, just trying to weaken the own team.

One could reply that those poor guys can also destroy normal games by just focussing on one player or alike (which happens quite often, especially with anonymous robots). So we could just take it as an unchangable issue. Still enigma might be right: The effect of this would be much larger on team games. [EDIT: I agree with Pjotr's opinion above]

Chris' idea of bouncing the danage back to the aggressor would lower these risks. Still that troll could uses pushes of course...

Oh well...


chris's picture
Last seen: 1 year 3 weeks ago
Admin
Posts: 852
Points: 848
dharokan wrote:
In fact, that's a nice idea. I am not sure wether it would be easy to understand though since it's a bit away from being realistic. Anyway, at first glance, this sounded like the best approach to me.

Let's imagine something like a team reflector animation = a bubble appearing around the hurted team mate, then damage animation to the shooter. I think it would be quite easy to understand for laser and blasts. We could do it for teammates pushes too, to show why the move is not executed.
For the bomb, we can also do the same by showing this team reflector/shield like animation to make understand why there is no damages for the team mate.
Now, if we really want to reduce potential anger within team members, we should probably either protect team mates from being frozen by their team mates bombs. That would sound more logical as there is no damage.

Those modifications intend to reduce anger within teams for damages caused by mistake. But of course it won't solve all the trolls issues for damages caused intentionaly. To prevent trolls issue the only good solution is what Pilou suggested with sustainable teams / clans concept instead of "on the go" team building for each game.
There is not enough players on RS to do this now, but that's probably the best solution in the future.
dharokan's picture
Last seen: 18 hours 26 min ago
Modo
Posts: 779
Points: 783
There is still my main argument:

"Dharoob" wrote:
On the other hand, not every damage is inflicted intentionally. A player might play well, watching all his teammates moves and shooting in a different direction. But then, one of his teamates moves into his line of fire (by mistake or by being pushed)... and bam! The shooter dies. I wonder if that could not cause even more anger than the other way around.


I'm afraid by doing this, we could have the opposite effekt and create even more possible anger.

A bubble-like shield as explanational effect would be nice though.

Avoiding pushes by blocking the pushing robot would be too much imho. And this could even save opponent robots who could be at the end of a pushing queue. 
(Furthermore I suppose it would be hard to program and especially to debug with all those special cases. One example: Robot pushed by a stationary pusher and would therefore push a teammate. Blocked? What if an opponent robot at the same turn tries to move to the pusher. Blocked too?)

About bombs: In my opinion it's not too hard to get frozen by a bomb without damage. Your teammates could still try to save you (which is a lot of fun, trying to save endangered teammates).

Hence, I forgot to comment Pilous idea. Yes Chris is absolutely right: The idea is probably the best way but unfortunately not helpful at the moment. We should keep it in mind for the next steps ;)

scorpia's picture
Last seen: 2 years 33 weeks ago
Power bot
Posts: 39
Points: 39
Hi robostrikers !



Been a while i didn't come here, but i want to make my contribution to this thread ^^

First at all, i want to react to the meaning of team game.
In my opinion, the team mode need the interaction between teamates (aka the possibility to push), indeed, i was interested in this mode because of that.
If you can coordinate your move with your teammate move, you can do special combo that you will never be able to do alone:

-In Death Match, you can kill someone that didn't expect you so far thanks to your ally push.

Here are some idea for team mode in death match:
There are three robots per team and each robot have a specific role, one is the assaillant with x cross and auto shoot, an other is the defender with shield and energy and the last one is the support/disruptor.

The aim is to kill the assaillant first and he can be kill either by pushing him or by shotting him.
Only the assaillant can shoot and blast.
The defender have to protect his assaillant by taking bomb/shot/blast.
The support/disruptor' is as its name suggests, he have to push his assailant to replace him or save him and he can also put some bombs to stun ennemies.

Each role have their own bonus that are refresh every round.


-In Race mode, you can take faster the differents numbers and then win thanks to teamplay.

I though about quite the same as for Death match except the aim is to let your assaillant take all the numbers.



But still, there is the issue about the team coordination.

I'm quoting myself because i still think it can be a solution

Some ideas to specialize team game

    Delete energy from bonus but make allie's shot heal us, it'll be more strategic and we could save our allie more effectively

    Delay the "Valid" bouton so that we have more time to think about team combo

So basiccaly, if we get more time, we can coordinate better, but as Pjotr said, it will delete the speed thing about robostrike.

Afterward, the interest of making ally's shot healing us is double, indeed you can't hurt them anymore and instead of that you can actually help them or even save them.


An other idea that might resolve the coordination issue.

During my few team game, i notice that telling your teammate where you was going was quite difficult, we had to say something like "i'm going to the left of the x cross".
My proposition is to add something that can show to your teammate a square, for exemple underline and twinkle it like that:
http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=131107061722650806.png



Something i want to say about dharocan's idea, if it still stun your ally, then it can still kill them with transporter that lead to some hole or laser.
So, if you want to supress ally's dommage, you should supress the bomb's stun too :x
 


chris's picture
Last seen: 1 year 3 weeks ago
Admin
Posts: 852
Points: 848
Hi Scorpia,
very interesting input as your approach is about different rules and gameplay (by roles) for the team mode. We can also imagine special maps for team mode, this was a field we tried to explore in the early discussions about this.
I suggest we continue digging in that direction to imagine a new way of playing RS in team mode, while keeping it understandable and "doable".

About the team mode as it is now, my conclusion from everyone's opinion is that the best we can do to reduce anger within team mates is friendly fire protection => no damage and no bomb freeze for team mates. But the team pushes would still be the remaining issue. From Scorpia idea about showing the destination (insipred from Pjotr suggestion too), maybe we could show simplified team mates moves as colored lines on the ground ?

About time settings for each turn, I think this is not a very usefull option. Shouldn't we set it automatically for instance to 1 min for non team game and 2 min for team games ?
dharokan's picture
Last seen: 18 hours 26 min ago
Modo
Posts: 779
Points: 783
skorpia wrote:
Something i want to say about dharocan's idea
I've got that! :smirk:

More comments by me later...
scorpia's picture
Last seen: 2 years 33 weeks ago
Power bot
Posts: 39
Points: 39
chris wrote:
About time settings for each turn, I think this is not a very usefull option. Shouldn't we set it automatically for instance to 1 min for non team game and 2 min for team games ?


I desagree with this for multiple reason:

-At first, it'll prevent new player to take their time and think more deeply about new move and by extend to make exotic move for everybody.

-It prevent for different game mode such like "campaign" (=race map that is very difficult to achieve so the one who tries need time.

-It'll slow game where there only experiemented player who can play within 30s.


Ps: i forget about one thing, sometime people don't want to valid to play last, if the time is fixed to 1 min, game can be very long for nothing :x