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Team Games under development

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scorpia's picture
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Yesterday, i did some team game race and i find out one issue.

Usually, we  don't help each other because it's more interesing to split and take differents points.
Imho, it's not interesing to play like that, there is no team coordination, not so much difference with normal game.


I have two suggestions about that:

-Either we add a restriction such as taking points in a predefined order
but we can still split and take point faster.

-Or taking point requires at least 1 team interaction (=pushing teamate)
but it restrain a lot of actions.


Of course, the race team'll need more adapted maps.
yeku's picture
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I think that the friendly fire and bomb protection should be something optional. This would mean that RS would have more options and it's something you already implemented, so you wouldn't need much time.
chris's picture
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It's not for me a question of time but a question of logic and understanding for players.
I developed real time teammates moves preview and friendly fire protection, because damages / pushes caused to / by teammates was supposed to be the main problem in team games, making players angry and arguing with their teammates.
I don't understand why this should be now only an option. And as team game is already an option, you'll have an option on the option. Not very easy to understand for players and to display information about this, espacially to new players.

I can make this easily as an option but I'm not sure that it would be really efficient and that we really know what we want. The team mode is not different enough from regular modes imho, that's why we don't find the right rules.
Maybe we should imagine team games with a new kind of maps : ex : 4xsymetry and 4 different starting marks (one for each team). Then the winner team would be the one who has the last survivor or the one who captured all the marks first.
dharokan's picture
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Honestly, I like the team mode the way it is. :)

scorpia wrote:
Usually, we  don't help each other because it's more interesing to split and take differents points.
Imho, it's not interesing to play like that, there is no team coordination, not so much difference with normal game.
Well, that depends a lot on the maps you play. At the weekend, we played large races. Splitting is the clue there and imho that needs team coordination, too. Otherwise we would have gone all for the same marks ;)
On smaller maps, that's different of course.

Your suggestion sound a bit too complicated to me.

@Yeku:
Of course, I was asking for friendly fire, too. 
After this discussion, I understand why we should start without it. 
Still it would be more interesting for pro team players (like us, hehe) but yet it might really cause agression... sad dilemma.

@Chris: I don't share your point about nested options. Imho those option buttons do not have to be boolean (on/off) at all.
I think we could make the button for team mode cycle through a range of different modes with different icons:
- Normal (default)
- Team mode without friendly fire
- Team mode with friendly fire
- Team mode with different starting spots

This could be easily visualized too and should be understandable

Imho the main problem is the logic for maps: At the moment, a player chooses a map and then he chooses the option. That's fine and easy to understand.
But if we want to keep following this rule, some of the options need to be attributes of the maps and not choice options after choosing the map.

This leads to another question: Where should we offer those maps? Should we just add new lists?

And again, this brings back an old idea of mine (a little off-topic), because we would be on half-way to achieve it:
Why not add default options to every map? Some maps don't work well with blasts, for example.

chris wrote:
Maybe we should imagine team games with a new kind of maps : ex : 4xsymetry and 4 different starting marks (one for each team). Then the winner team would be the one who has the last survivor or the one who captured all the marks first.
 :thumbsup: Sounds great to me. And this could be an option of the map too ^^

Hmm.. after writing all this... I think that Scorpias idea could be an option for all races, too: The need for taking the marks in the right order.

dharokan's picture
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Oh..

I forgot to comment the new preview.

Basically that preview of teammates moves seems to work fine.
But at the moment, it's no help at all.

Reasons:
1. The previews fade away far too quickly.
2. The previews do not show shots or blasts. 
    (Thus it's confusing to see short paths only ...)



scorpia's picture
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dharokan wrote:

Well, that depends a lot on the maps you play. At the weekend, we played large races. Splitting is the clue there and imho that needs team coordination, too. Otherwise we would have gone all for the same marks ;)

On smaller maps, that's different of course.

Your suggestion sound a bit too complicated to me.


Well, i don't think it's interesing to go in the same mark even with a small map, it's faster and easier to take marks alone and it's avoid too much interaction between all players that might result in random move.


But yeah, i guess we need more option or at least a way to differentiate race and death match in team mode.

We imagined at the time some campaign map (= very hard race for "team war"), and i though about the possibility of starting at differents marks.
It'll allow us to create maps funnier
(ex: a race with at the left the team 1 and at the right team 2 and between them a wall that prevent any interaction except shot, but there's an issue, we'll need to validate marks made for our team meaning you won't need to take every marks and the map but only on the left side if we're team 1.)


About the number of option, it can be too much for newbie, but we could create some tutorial about this for them ^^
chris's picture
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dharokan wrote:
The previews do not show shots or blasts. 
    (Thus it's confusing to see short paths only ...)
There's no way to show this clearly : when a robot does shot blast x-cross, energy, etc .. without moving from the tile. So the best I can do is show the path and show the sequence, not much more...
dharokan wrote:
Of course, I was asking for friendly fire, too.
After this discussion, I understand why we should start without it.
Still it would be more interesting for pro team players (like us, hehe) but yet it might really cause agression... sad dilemma.
Do you mean starting with or without friendly fire protection ?
dharokan wrote:
Hmm.. after writing all this... I think that Scorpias idea could be an option for all races, too: The need for taking the marks in the right order.
There are many many maps where it wouldn't work as there's no way back from some marks and marks are not on the right order according to the natural path. But by the way, where would be the benefit in gameplay for a validation order ?
dharokan's picture
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chris wrote:
dharokan wrote:
The previews do not show shots or blasts. 
    (Thus it's confusing to see short paths only ...)
There's no way to show this clearly : when a robot does shot blast x-cross, energy, etc .. without moving from the tile. So the best I can do is show the path and show the sequence, not much more...

Yes I thought so too. Still it's confusing because you (as a player) keep expeting that this robot add some more moves. 

I'm just providing the playing experiences ;)

chris wrote:
dharokan wrote:
Of course, I was asking for friendly fire, too.
After this discussion, I understand why we should start without it.
Still it would be more interesting for pro team players (like us, hehe) but yet it might really cause agression... sad dilemma.
Do you mean starting with or without friendly fire protection ?

Yep. That was what we agreed on: No damage from teammates. (Even if I had an opposite opinion at start)
Thus an option for switching the damages on again would be nice, we should make it clear visible and not default.
(And maybe we should only add it later to avoid anger at start of team mode?)

chris wrote:
dharokan wrote:
Hmm.. after writing all this... I think that Scorpias idea could be an option for all races, too: The need for taking the marks in the right order.
There are many many maps where it wouldn't work as there's no way back from some marks and marks are not on the right order according to the natural path. But by the way, where would be the benefit in gameplay for a validation order ?
Right, this would not work as a general playing option. But it would work as a map option, if you would implement such a thing ^^. And I could imagine some nice (and special) maps raising by that. Well, it's not important at all though, just a sidenote!

chris's picture
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Some changes on the online game version uploaded last night:

in team mode
- Teams in the little robot icons are now visible for observers too
- Teammates now block laser shots even if protected from friendly fire
- Friendly fire protection prevents from damages but not from friendly bomb freeze anymore
- Team moves preview has been improved (+ show again when hovering bots)
- Validated teams moves don't display in the chat anymore (deprecated)

in multiplayer mode (including team mode)
- No more damages for incomplete sequence in multiplayer games (but still destruction when empty sequence)
- Score system has been changed to give more points to beginners (detailed news about this coming soon)

I wish you a merry christmas ! :)
nouille's picture
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Thanks for rs ! , and happy christmas too ;)